Off the record : Can you prove that god doesn't exist?

[buttershug]

Originally Posted by haloxt

The topic I wanted to talk about is why atheists want so ardently to dismiss God.

One reason is the strong desire for accuracy.

But I think you mean you only want to talk about it on your terms.

[Bilirubin]

Originally Posted by Luis Garcia

dear god

[feelings]

Originally Posted by jasona

[Fatima]

Originally Posted by buttershug

One reason is the strong desire for accuracy.

good point.

it almost is like an over reaction, with atheists, to dismiss that a god exists because of how easy it is to disclaim and find flaws with established religions - like, Christianity etc

but beyond being able to find flaws in the established religions, it still isn't proven that there is not some type of god/creator..

[buttershug]

I don't think anyone has even proposed a method by which it could be proven that God does not exist.

[ppnl]

Originally Posted by Fatima

good point.

it almost is like an over reaction, with atheists, to dismiss that a god exists because of how easy it is to disclaim and find flaws with established religions - like, Christianity etc

but beyond being able to find flaws in the established religions, it still isn't proven that there is not some type of god/creator..

I cannot prove that aliens aren't performing anal probes on thousands of people either. I wouldn't even try. It is up to those making a claim to support it.

[Fatima]

Originally Posted by ppnl

I cannot prove that aliens aren't performing anal probes on thousands of people either. I wouldn't even try. It is up to those making a claim to support it.

but would you be open to the possibility of anal probing even if you knew that it could not be proved?

iow, where do you draw the line to say that you know that something doesn't exist.. (god)

[ppnl]

Originally Posted by Fatima

but would you be open to the possibility of anal probing even if you knew that it could not be proved?

iow, where do you draw the line to say that you know that something doesn't exist.. (god)

The very question is so mushy headed as to defy any possible answer. What is this "open to the possibility" of which you speak? And what do you mean by prove? Proof is technically a concept from math and nothing in the empirical world can be proven in that sense. Proof informally can also mean strong empirical evidence.

So by asking if I'm "open to the possibility" you seem to be asking if I can believe without evidence or even the possibility that evidence will be found. The very question is epistemological insanity.

As for where I draw the line to say I know something does not exist well, I have no use for such a line. Empirical knowledge is not a binary attribute it is provisional. Knowledge is based on evidence and in fact defined by evidence. As a result you cannot ever claim absolute knowledge in the binary sense that you seek.

So I cannot claim to "know" that there is no god in this sense. But I don't know it in the same sense that I don't know that the world was not created last Thursday or that Russel's tea pot does not exist. In a technical sense this may make me an agnostic in the same sense that Russel was.

Yet informally I really can say that I know that Elvis is not alive and living on Venus. Informally I can say that I know that George W. Bush is not the love child of Margret Thatcher and Tiny Tim. In this sense I can claim to know that god does not exist. In this sense I am a radical atheist because I class belief in god with these beliefs based on the evidence.

[llanitedave]

It's those anal-probing evangelists that I'm worried about. Especially the ones in Congress.

[Monad]

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Staff Note Moved as not really a science thread

[ppnl]

Originally Posted by llanitedave

It's those anal-probing evangelists that I'm worried about. Especially the ones in Congress.

Or the Catholic ones...

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by haloxt

The topic I wanted to talk about is why atheists want so ardently to dismiss God. It's just as shortsighted and lukewarm as Christian "believers" defending their beliefs. It's a battle of beliefs in a culture of too much entertainment. I think many of the posts on this topic illustrate well the reasons why people argue. I can't prove God exists, but I can show the underlying reasons people will argue in circles about it.

Surely if someone "ardently dismisses" something, they don't also argue in circles about it.

Person A: there's this thing, see
Person B: no, i don't see
A: hear me out, see, i can't prove it but i just kinda know it.
B: know what?
A: what I believe, about this thing,that it's real.
B: sure someone else said that before but I done told them and I'm telling you now, i don't see it.
A: well you ain't looking right
B: looking at what
A: the thing
B: fuck the thing man, you talking crazy shit, I'm getting a sandwich, you want one?

Sometimes people really do just want a decent sammich.